Purpose

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Light
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Purpose

Postby Light » Fri Jul 22, 2011 8:17 pm

I feel that one of the major reasons for depression is a feeling of purpose and self worth. I was wondering how some other members here have discovered their own purpose. It is something that I have been struggling with for a while and I feel like if I could discover an answer it would help.
Fear is the unknown; If you fear something....learn about it

We must want to change before we can accept change

hollyann
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Postby hollyann » Sat Jul 23, 2011 12:24 am

The only purpose I have right now is raising my son. Maybe you could try joining different kind of groups in your area. Helping with them. Some volunteer work. Having a hobby things like that.

hollyann

Obayan
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Postby Obayan » Sat Jul 23, 2011 1:48 am

I volunteer. I create things. And I play with my grandbabies. That's pretty much all I have right now in my life.

Light
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Postby Light » Sat Jul 23, 2011 10:09 am

Thanks for the replies. I should find more activities to get involved with. I think I am just in a confusing time in my life. I have completed a large number of college credits but not enough in one area to get a degree and I only work part time right now. Trying to get up the motivation to work full time hoping it will help.
Fear is the unknown; If you fear something....learn about it



We must want to change before we can accept change

shatteredhopes
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Postby shatteredhopes » Sun Jul 24, 2011 3:17 pm

(((((((Light))))))))) reproducing is just one way of helping the species survive. You can help others who are suffering, for instance. I highly recommend the book "Man's Search For Meaning" by Dr. Victor Frankyl. He survived the holocaust and talks about what gave meaning in the midst of the horrors of a concentration camp where people were being slaughtered but some survived. What gives us meaning is different for us all, but some might find it through their work or a passion for something.

As far as school, what about just taking one or two courses of something that really interests you? Maybe don't worry about the degree just yet just get back to school with something you are interested in that may enable you to get back to studying, improving your gpa, and back on track.

Not always but often "pursue your passion and the money will follow." I think too many pursue higher ed as a way to get a job and not just for the learning opportunity. I for instance started out as a business major but ended up in philosophy. Actually, the analytical and writing skills I got from studying philosophy helped me in my career.

I am struggling too now without seeming to have much meaning. The mental illness has taken almost everything I loved from me, and my dreams I now see as foolish naive delusions. But I am so far just plowing through as best I can. Some days are better than others. I have an elderly disabled mother who needs my help from time to time and does nice things for me like invite me over for a home cooked meal. I have one real life friend who I talk to every day and who also does nice things for me from time to time, like just recently he gave me a grocery store gift card so I could get some good groceries. On some days I am able to try to offer encouragement to others suffering this horrible disease. I try to do random acts of kindness and charity when I can. Sometimes this is all enough, other times not so much. But I haven't been hospitalized in a number of years now. I haven't attempted suicide in a long while now (although I regularly suffer suicidal ideation).

The Dalai Lama said "Compassion is the source of happiness." I have found this to be true, but it can also be a source of great angst when we have compassion for those suffering and are powerless to do much if anything to mitigate it. But there are a times now and then when I can be content. Grateful for the little things, like when I have decent food to eat, or after a rain when the weather is cooler, or enough money to treat myself to a gourmet coffee. Sometimes that's not enough, sometimes it is. A few times people have told me I really really helped them. That gave me a sense of peace and accomplishment.

I have decided I am going to work on bettering my life in what little measure is in my control, or try at least. The obstacles seem overwhelming sometimes, but I do believe if you go back to school, starting with just one or two courses, even at a community college, taking something that just interests you without worrying about the degree or the long term goals right now, you'll move in a positive direction.

Sometimes when I am down I just go through my gratitude list, that I can see hear walk etc. and that helps some put some perspective. At least, I can help me though the moment. Maybe you and I both should not worry too much about the big picture and grand scheme of things sort of purpose, but just focus on the moment, the next right thing, and finding what little pleasure we can while also trying to be of some simple use to humanity (or the environment, nonhuman animals, whatever).

Wishing you light and peace in your day and sending big big hugs for what its worth. I think the previous poster is right, some people who don't suffer the illnesses we do don't worry so much about these grand questions. Maybe they haven't been as disillusioned yet like we might have been, but we can take a que from them and just plow through as best we can.
"Sorrow floats" John Irving

(Un)Enlightened
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Re: Purpose

Postby (Un)Enlightened » Sun Jul 24, 2011 6:10 pm

Amen to that!

I believe you are correct, for I'm doing okay again, and I believe it's because of me working and making myself useful & I have a goal in life. Boredome is a soul killer. Keep active to feel alife.
Sheldon: You know, in difficult times like this, I often turn to a force stronger than myself.
Amy: Religion?
Sheldon: Star Trek.

(Un)Enlightened
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Re: Purpose

Postby (Un)Enlightened » Mon Jul 25, 2011 1:05 pm

I was quite busy the last time I popped down to comment and that's why I didn't quite get to say all that was on my mind but now that I have more time on my hands I thought I'd further share my thoughts on life and "purpose".

Ahorse: Whether intentional or not, you come out a bit condescending in your comments. I'm not sure whether you notice it yourself or think anything off it, you come out as aggressive and arrogant in your writing. I mean I'm sure I've done the same a couple of times because it's easy to forget yourself and more difficult to see yourself and hear what you're saying from another's perspective so I get it, but I think that amongst strangers a more polite tone would be more approppriate. Also, you could take other people's opinions more into consideration, actually ponder upon them a bit and then respectfully argument against them, if need be, instead of disintegrating them in your seeming self-righteousness. How can you be so sure you are always in the right?

When I said that having a job works as a way to fight depression, I was speaking more of my own personal experience and mentioning it as a suggestion. I do not think of it as a foolproof or universal way to battle the blues, since I realize that not all people are cabable of getting/finding/keeping a job (at least one that fits one's education) or necessarily even willing to get one. Plus there were other instruments on my list, were there not? Finding a goal/goals in life, being one of them.

Other tools that are effective in my opinion are:

- Good, POSITIVE friends. One's that will make you relax, that you can share both good and bad times with, one's that keep your ego in check, one's that have your back, one's that will make you genuinely laugh and have a good time, and one's that will rub off some of their positivity on you and see the small stuff as it is; something not worth swetting over.

- Good health. There are several illnesses and nutritional deficiencies that cause depression, so a wholesome diet is important in keeping you happy. Indulging occasionally is not bad though, quite the opposite; that rush from a piece or two of dark chocolate will show it's effects in your neurochemistry for a week. Also, good circulation means better oxygen flow to the brain, which will also improve your mood. Thusly, an active lifestyle with regular exercise and keeping your body on the move is important.

- Hobbies that challenge you mentally and/or physically. There's a reason why there's a connection between neural deterioration and depression, and it goes both ways. Your brain is like a muscle that wastes away if you don't use it, so keep it busy and avoid boring/easy passtimes.

- Dream and be spontaneous. Keep those feel-good-hormones flowing. Don't overthing things.

I could go on, but the point is, that there are MANY ways to rid of depression, the trick is to find the one's that work for you. For me, having great friends with a good sense of humor and a devil-may-care attitude helped. I also left behind my toxic family, a boring scenery, and did my own thing without shame and fear of judgement. And I was spontaneous, just as it is in my nature to be. I let myself be adventurous.

From one topic to another, Ahorse, what you said about humans and animals is quite interesting to me, because this thinking pattern seems to repeat itself with many people; seperating man from animals, when we are nothing but animals ourselves. We are animals, and thusly we engage in a lot of animal behavior, do we not? Are those human attributes you mentioned not also found in the animal kingdom? Animals lust, and so do we. Animals are greedy, like we are. They overindulge when possible, like we often do. They cheat and trick the members of their own species and feel envy and jealousy, like we do. They are selfish, just like us. Other animals are often ready to exchange their mates when a fitter candidate comes along, and they kill and attack their own sibling and offspring to survive, or of mere whim. Other animals aren't any better really. However, there's a big difference between us humans, and other animal species' and that is moral, social rules and etiquette, and habits that have been ingrained into many of us at an early age and that are difficult to ignore and shake off. For example, we reflect many expectations we cast upon others. If you act in a polite, respecful manner, (which most people find desirable, exemplary behavior) you most often receive the same treatment. In the same principle , if you disrespect others and expect them to backstab you at any given moment, they will reflect that attitude back to you and at most cases, end up doing just that.

Anyhoo, there were my two cents that ended up forming a novel and yet I feel like I didn't get even half down. But oh well. I will continue if prompted.
Sheldon: You know, in difficult times like this, I often turn to a force stronger than myself.

Amy: Religion?

Sheldon: Star Trek.

(Un)Enlightened
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Re: Purpose

Postby (Un)Enlightened » Mon Jul 25, 2011 1:14 pm

Just to throw it out there: why is it important for us to secure the survival of humankind??
Sheldon: You know, in difficult times like this, I often turn to a force stronger than myself.

Amy: Religion?

Sheldon: Star Trek.

shatteredhopes
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Postby shatteredhopes » Mon Jul 25, 2011 11:42 pm

Ahorse, your comments earlier appear to have been edited and I thank you for that if so because when I read them earlier I felt attacked and demeaned and became very upset. An objective person might not feel that way, perhaps you did nothing wrong its just I'm too fragile and broken to debate and argue.

As far as purpose/meaning I thought they were one in the same as far as this thread goes because I thought the poster was talking about more than just our base animal instincts.

As far as survival of the species, reproducing is not the only issue, although it is critical part of the equation. For example, famine in Somalia right now risks the lives of 800,000 or so people. Is not donating to help feed people also essential in this instance for survival? Climate change is already having a dramatic effect on our existence. India faced rice shortages, China, wheat, in the US we are having problems with cattle because of weather related problems. Isn't helping people adapt to climate change and anticipated global food and envirnomental problems also key to the survival of our species? When you volunteered for a suicide crisis line, if you saved just one or two lives, isn't that also key? With overpopulation and its effects on the planet and resources, don't those who elect not to reproduce also contribute to the survival of the species? I don't mean to get political or too off point, but I wanted to address your argument.

As far as frankyl's book goes, its not just another holocaust book. He was a psychiatrist who came up with a new therapy helping people devise a way to survive the worst in existance by having a sense of meaning/purpose. It is often regarded as one of the most influential books of recent times. It does sort of address some the existential dilemnas posed by we depressives.

Unenlighted big hugs. I want to thank you for your response on this thread and congratulate you on going back to work. That's awesome you are able to do that and that you have a goal. Also very good advice on the things that helped in depression, some of those things helped me in the past, such as when I had a good support network of friends.

As far as the question of whether or not the species should survive, I think the question is more can it? All I can do is try to help the suffering in what little ways I can and try to be a decent person and show compassion, which I often fail at personally.

Anyway, dismiss me or anything I have to say, as all I can do is offer what little support I can based on what has helped me in the past. So I try to offer what little encouragement I can here and in chat, but seeing as how I am constantly on the edge, maybe I have no business giving advice to anyone and should just shut up.

((((((((((Light)))))))))))) I am so sorry if I messed up your thread. I was just trying to be helpful the only way I knew how and perhaps I misunderstood your meaning.
"Sorrow floats" John Irving

TackingIntoTheWind
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Postby TackingIntoTheWind » Tue Jul 26, 2011 10:59 am

Okaaaay...I'm just going to add a few thoughts that have crossed my mind re. this thread...
I think that it is important that this site, it's forums and chat-rooms should be a " safe space ". Somewhere where we can all share our thoughts, feelings and ideas freely and comfortably. The way I see it is, we all come from different places, backgrounds and experiences of depression, and by so sharing we can get new perspectives that we might not otherwise have found by ourselves. We all deal with depression. So, if we all put our own " tools " for managing depression, our coping-strategies, our thoughts, feelings and experiences of depression, things that have worked for us, " on the table ", then we can all look through them as individuals, picking up what might help us and leaving what we, personally, might find less useful.
With that in mind...I would have to say, (((( Ahorse )))), that I do think that the tone of some of your posts on this thread is rather more strident than I would consider desirable. Sorry, but there it is.

Eg. " If you care to re read my posts nowhere have I said it's "Important". That word is irrelevant to what the thread is about. It's about Purpose, stick to that focus, that would be good. "
With respect, I do not believe that it is for you to say what this thread is about. In my experience, threads tend to meander along by themselves, something that I, personally, am quite comfortable with.

Eg. " But I do refute the tripe that is written. " " Tripe " ?
Again, with respect, I do not consider it appropriate to refer to anyone's post as " tripe ". If you disagree with a post? Fine. Pass it by. But, such a derogatory description of anyone's post, to me, hardly helps to create the " safe space, that I would want this site to be.

Personally as far as " Purpose " is concerned I would lean towards the views expressed by (((( shattered hopes )))) and (((( ( Un )Enlightened )))). I don't have children myself, so finding meaning or purpose in having children is rather a non-starter as far as I'm concerned. I have to, by definition, look elsewhere for purpose.
(((( shatteredhopes )))), it's interesting that you mentioned Dr Victor Frankyl's book, as I actually own a copy of it myself. Although, I haven't read it yet. Perhaps I should move it up my " to read list "?
Personally, I find it helps me to feel that I am, or at least can be, someone who can change the world for the better, in however small a way. Eg. I'm a supporter of Amnesty International, in a small way. Also, I'm presently having a bit of a " Spring-clean " so I've been taking some books that I've finished with to some local charity shops for them to sell, which will generate a small amount of money for good causes.
( (((( shatteredhopes )))) I would have to say that I have found much of your advice and encouragement very helpful. The last thing that I would want you to do is to " just shut up. " )
I do also think it's important to be useful, as (((( Un ) Enlightened )))) said.
Perhaps in a way we're all right...Perhaps, as long as whatever is done is moral and honourable, then, very often, " Purpose " like " Beauty " might well be " in the eye of the beholder..."
Last edited by TackingIntoTheWind on Tue Jul 26, 2011 11:22 am, edited 1 time in total.
Captain Adelaide Brooke, holding a weapon on The Doctor: " State your name, rank and intention. "
The Doctor: " The Doctor, doctor, fun. "
Doctor Who: The Waters Of Mars

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Re: Purpose

Postby (Un)Enlightened » Tue Jul 26, 2011 11:20 am

Ahorse:
"I try to get people moving if they say they are stuck by telling them my mistakes and where things can be improved as I've learnt. Remember these are all just my thoughts, not instructions or things not to be challenged. I would enjoy a challenge on any issue from anybody provided we stay polite. I couldn't handle it years ago but today the object for me is simply to get people thinking or talking, or both."

I find the part of 'staying polite' particularly amusing, because you are doing anything but. Your style of argumenting is offensive, rude and self-contained, and the way that you brush off people's hurt feelings with a clinical "I can't help how you react to things I write" tells me that you don't give a rat's ass about how your demeanor affects others. Please practise what you preach.

Also, you say that you wish not to dominate the discussion and that YOU know what Light intended with his/her inquiry, but as I see it it is you that is going on tangents and telling US what it is that Light meant. Do you know what he/she meant really?

Maybe we should start of by defining the word "purpose" just to clear that out, and differentiating it from "meaning". The two can get quite synonymous, can they not?

I used to be like you at one point of my depression - angry, unpatient and unapologetically conceited and cocky, and I thought that everybody else was a thoughtless sheep just going through life without ever stopping to really THINK. But I got over myself. I suggest you try and do the same.

YOU are the one who makes you miserable. You with your negative attitude, and black and white opinions. Try to see the grea in between, and the people that you are offending with your malice. You did some volunteer work? Good for you. But you know that speaking in a contained, considerate tone is volunteer work too. Are you here to support fellow depressed individuals, or to break them down?

Because of my short attention span and a slight language barrier I may have misunderstood you, and I admit I skipped over segments of what the participants of this conversation have been writing, and I so apologize for that, but that is still no excuse for your obnoxiousness.

It is just that you are sometimes vague in your writing, such as at the part where you said that maybe I do not understand biology. Why do you say that? And why do you juxtapose survival instinct with the need to breed, as if they are one and the same? Please rationalise your reasoning, because I find that train of thought hard to follow. Also, we as humans have a capability to use logic and considerations, or am I incorrect? So why are you utilizing instinct as the reason for having children, when the thing that I was asking was the logic behind having children. As in, what is the true motivation behind continuing the species? I have asked parents of various ages, "why did you have kids?" and they always just say because it's a holy and beautiful thing, and because they wanted to. So you created another human being with thoughts and a will and feelings because YOU wanted to. Not because they asked you to, because obviously, they can not comment. YOU decided to get him or her. So was it all for your own selfish reasons of wanting to...what, have something cute to pet and branwash? A member of the society to contribute to that society? So then one cold ask, WHY does that society need to continue it's existence, when you are not going to be there to SEE it.

This topic of continuing the species I bring up because a couple of people here mentioned their children as their meaning/purpose to live. May be out of topic, but the motivation behind breeding is something much more important and complicated than just a matter of instinct, in my mind. And in my mind, people should think twice before having offspring, because infants are not chihuahuas, or parrots, or your personal toys, or at least they should not be treated as such.

Another thing that I found vague was this challenge you mentioned, and Iwould appreciate if you elaborated on that as well.

And please do not perceive my pondering on the reasoning behind reproduction as a sign of my poor self esteem, because I can assure you that I respect myself as a human being and have a strong will to live. You make quite rash conclusions off of a poor basis.

Yet again, you deal judgement from your high horse.

shatteredhopes:

*hughs you back* Thank you so much for being as sweet a person as you are, and I can tell on behalf of all here that your opinions are definitely taken int consideration and that you have many valuable things to say to all of us. Please do not abase yourself; I for example always read what you have to say with interest. You are after all very well spoken and it seems like you have a thought out opinion about everything, which I admire. You will not be dismissed! Not even if you beg me to do so!

What I also admire about you is your compassion and drive to help - there are extremely few who would be as motivated as you are on those areas.

But on the topic of whether human race can survive or not, it's hard to tell. It looks very bleak to many nations in Africa, for example, but for the rest of us it's ard to tell. I think we are defintely overpopulating the Earth, which necessitates faster and more effective food production, and there is the matter of climate change which we are not helping with our (unnecessarily) extreme energy expenditure... I will probably go further into that subject later on but for now I have to go. Always a joy reading a bits and pieces of your mind on this forum though!
Sheldon: You know, in difficult times like this, I often turn to a force stronger than myself.

Amy: Religion?

Sheldon: Star Trek.

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Warmsoul/Jeanie13
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Postby Warmsoul/Jeanie13 » Tue Jul 26, 2011 11:33 am

Ahorse,

Just to make note:

We are not here to criticize others. Who are we to tell the person that started a thread, that they are wrong? We give support, if that can't be done, then perhaps do not reply.

The little jabs, the upsetting the one that started the thread must stop. If you feel strongly about something, perhaps start your own thread?

This is the second time I have request that you calm your opinion down and keep the other person in mind. There are no professionals in this site, not saying you are, just making that statement. If someone needs that kind of direction, they they will make the needed appointment outside of the forum.

Respect for others. No more arguing, no more telling someone is wrong in what they say in their own threads.

Warmsoul/Moderator
“If we admit our depression openly and freely, those around us get from it an experience of freedom rather than the depression itself.”
--- Dr. Rollo May
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(Un)Enlightened
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Re: Purpose

Postby (Un)Enlightened » Tue Jul 26, 2011 12:36 pm

Christ, this is the problem with the written, online media. You can't actually see the person you're talking to, and miss the nonverbal cues that occur in face-to-face conversation.

Just so we're on the same page, I am indeed not trying to insult you, degrade you or attack you. I am trying to inform you that you come out as cruel and judgemental. Are you sure I'm the one doing all the attacking?

Please point out where I was being impolite, and I will definitely apologize. I was just writing my sentiments and impressions about your style of writing, which I find insulting, and pointing it out to you so that you would edit your text a bit for the audience. I mean we all have nasty thoughts, but why let them always out?

And when I mentioned this:

"I believe you are correct, for I'm doing okay again, and I believe it's because of me working and making myself useful & I have a goal in life. Boredome is a soul killer. Keep active to feel alife."

I wrote those three things and meant them seperately. I did not mean that only working people are useful, by God no. I mean that doing something that I find important and useful for me makes me feel alive. As in, living spontaneously and being adventurous. Working is important to me, because I'm challenging myself and making friends with coworkers. Having goals is important because, yet again, I'm challenging myself and trying to find ways to reach those goals.

I think there has been a huge misunderstanding between us, but darn are you an angry person.

I have actually felt the disabling level of depression; almost got kicked out of school because I was cutting class so much, just laying home staring at the ceiling and wanting to fall asleep and never wake up. I did also quit a job because of it.

Yes, I'd say I'm having a good phase, but that does not mean that I am completely over my depression. It could come back, and that's why I come here. To keep feeling okay. To get some advice and perspective.

I do not appreciate you presuming that you know what my life has been like, and you seem to be belittling what I have been through without basis. Please do not do that.

Plus I did not advocate medications and therapy because I have no experience from either, and therefore would feel hypocritical about mentioning them. Aren't they a bit obvious means too?

The instruments I mentioned are just some things that worked the best for me, and I don't think that having positive, good people around is stressed enough. Really, a good network of friends is the thing that helped me the most, personally.
Sheldon: You know, in difficult times like this, I often turn to a force stronger than myself.

Amy: Religion?

Sheldon: Star Trek.

shatteredhopes
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Postby shatteredhopes » Tue Jul 26, 2011 3:19 pm

(((((((((Un)Enlightened))))))))((((((((((Tacking)))))))))))))((((((((Warmie))))))))))

Tacking I do hope you read the book. Its a bit of a hard read in parts because of the context, but well worth it. Frankyl created "logotherapy" to help people work through suffering by having a sense of meaning or purpose in life. For him, he survived by keeping in mind his love for his wife (who was dead but he did not know while he was in the camp) and his work and theories he had smuggled into the camp. He talks about how some just lost meaning and committed suicide and some just gave up and perished, but what enabled some to hang on? There are important lessons in that for those of us suffering depression and other mental disorders I think. For me, when I had a sense of purpose and mission, a good support network of friends, my pets, my family was intact, a sufficient income, and a job I loved, I was happy. Actually happy for the first time in my life as I approached 40. Losing everything that gave my life meaning and that sense of purpose combined with a series of painful and traumatic events, including losing my very mind for over a year, have left me very scarred and depressed.

Yes ((((((((Light)))))))))) I do think it is the case many of us are depressed because we don't have a sense of purpose, or that's a component of the problem, and for those who have a purpose, it gives them something to hang on to in the darkness of our illness.

For some it may be their work, for others their children, for others helping humanity (or the environment, nonhuman animals, etc.), or whatever the case...we create our own purpose and meaning I think and it is different for everyone.

((((((Un)Enlightened)))))))))) I think your advice about depression is very good. I have been through years of therapy, been on tons of different meds, even went through ECT....none helped as much as having all the components in place in my life and a sense of purpose. So again kudos to you on having a goal.

((((((((((Tacking))))))))))) You are such as sweetie my brother. Much much love to you.

(((((((Warmie))))))))) Thanks for getting us back on track. I hope I've helped that and not hurt with my post.
"Sorrow floats" John Irving

(Un)Enlightened
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Re: Purpose

Postby (Un)Enlightened » Wed Aug 10, 2011 7:54 am

..Was this it? Oh come on, I LOVE debating. For me this all has been just some playful (if not a bit more aggressive on one side) banter. Would you perhaps be up for some personal messaging, Ahorse?
Sheldon: You know, in difficult times like this, I often turn to a force stronger than myself.

Amy: Religion?

Sheldon: Star Trek.


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