Two Camps

[shatteredhopes]

First, (((((((((((Mich))))))))))) you did NOT TOLERATE abuse, you were a child and young person manipulated by an adult you trusted who had power over you in a very big sense. Never, never, never is the child to blame! Always, always, always it is the sick adult's fault, manipulation, violation of love and trust and responsibility, etc. Would you say the girl my ex-husband abused tolerated it for a long time and only fessed up because he was caught red-handed by a nude photo of her surfacing? Allowed him to take nude pictures of her? No, you would say this was a ABUSED child he completely manipulated and took advantage of and he is the sick twisted one and its a good thing he is in prison! I know you would feel compassion for another child who was abused, why can't you feel that compassion for yourself? I know, I have a hard time too blaming myself for things for a long time, and still backslide sometimes, but recognizing others are guilty or to blame is part of learning to stand up for, assert ourselves...taking back the power that was taken away from us! Part of the manipulation is making the child feel powerless and part of the reason they often get away with it is making the child feel to blame or somehow equally responsible...you know in your head...you just have to learn in your heart that you ARE NOT TO BLAME. You probably felt too much shame to do anything, even if there was anything you could have done in the situation...that's how the evil ones so often get away with it! They play on the shame!

Please limit the black coffee, as caffiene will dehydrate you and make you sicker and can also speed your heart and make you more anxious and combined with the not eating put you even more at risk of major heart problems...water has no calories and will help you expell weight too, so please drink some water!

The only thing you are good at? I disagree...you are good for instance at being a supportive, caring, kind friend to others who are suffering like me. You are a good parent who carts her kids around even when enduring extreme emotional pain, or puts her pain aside and a happy front for her son's birthday, or puts so much thought into Christmas gifts even though its associated with personal trauma. You are a smart person, a person who listens, a person who cares and always has a kind word for another. I have NEVER seen you be unkind to anyone...ANYONE! You have a GREAT COMPASSIONATE HEART!

I have a challenge I want to issue to you! Join the thread things I am proud of that (((((((((((crystal))))))))) posted or I'll start a new thread and we should list at least two things everyday that are POSITIVE we like about ourselves, we are proud of, we accomplished...or keep a journal of the postive things people say about you and you can manage to say about yourself. I'll start: I got up at 6:00 am despite being very very sleepy to get the trash out; I shopped for my mom who was unable to go out; a friend of mine wrote a letter to the editor, and someone just blasted her in a follow-up letter, so later I'm gunna go on line and blow the person outa the water with reason, facts, information, and argument to defend my friend.

Okay, now you...what two or three nice things can you say about yourself that are truly POSITIVE or HEALTHY that you accomplished, that you know are true...1) you are very kind; 2) you are at least forcing yourself to eat before you drive so as to be at less risk of endangering others; 3) you allowed yourself to enjoy some sunshine...to actually enjoy something instead of punishing yourself...can you list two or three more?

I would like to see you develop a little confidence and self-esteem and see yourself as we all see you. I do it too, hating myself or things about myself or feeling low about myself when depressed or upset, but I try to fight it...please try with me!

Can you chart out a plan for attacking the anorexia? Why not go back into treatment if still a problem? Can you practice thought stopping and come up with some rewarding thoughts to help retrain yourself or for instance pet the dog every time you want to hurt yourself or reward yourself by playing with the dog every time you do something positive like eat?

I care about you and don't want to see you permanently damage vital organs, fall from dizziness and break your neck and become paralyzed, suffer heart attack or stroke...I understand, but just hope for you to start to heal.

with hugs and love...

[xn728]

JUST TAKE CARE ((((((MICH))))))eat as best you can ,,my problem is i dont eat cos my tummy rejects it ,,im having to eat porrige again ,,,,not nice but it keeps me going ,,,,just stay strong mich and keep talking with us ,sunny here again today ,,hope the weathers good for you ,,,candles tonight mich ,,,keep going my dear freind ,,hugs (((((mich)))),,,lots of love ken xxxxx

[Mich]

(((((shatteredhopes, ken))))))) Funny you should mention this shatteredhopes because yesterday I did go on that thread and mention something good that happened in my day (I think it was feeling the sunshine). I will try to do that every day as you suggest. I think it will be a positive thing for me.
My weight is down again this morning and I know I should stop this slide but I can't (or won't??). I am consumed by the thought of getting smaller and smaller. This is a terrible disease and once it has you in its grip, it is so hard to break free.
My depression is intense and I know that the starvation is worsening things there. I am so used to feeling this way now that I wonder if part of me is even scared to feel well....what would that be like? what expectations would others have of me?
Apparently I am not punishing myself enough with the anorexia so I have been chewing the inside of my lip and cheek. It is raw and swollen but provides the pain I so badly need to feel.

[Warmsoul/Jeanie13]

((((((((((((((((((( Mich )))))))))))))))))))))))

Just sending a warm hug your way.

Warmie

[Mich]

Feeling very very low. The smallest things can set me off it seems. For instance, I went into the chat room and nobody said HI to me when I entered. I always say HI to everyone that enters so that they feel welcome and included. Having nobody say HI to me leaves me feeling rejected. I know, I should grow up and not take everything so personally. These people are not obligated to say HI to me. I may take a break from there for awhile.
My weight is going down daily either in half pound or full pound increments. I have lost XX lbs so far. Because I am feeling hurt right now, the desire to emaciate myself is very strong. I have it in my mind that I want to be 79 lbs which on my 5'10" frame would be quite skeletal. I don't know how I arrived at that number....I just did. I really would be repulsing people at that weight. It's as if I am saying...you think I am repulsive now, just wait until you see me at 79 lbs. You may not even be able to look at me any more.
I have my psychiatrist appt today. I don't have anything prepared in writing and don't have it in my head what I want to talk about. It may be a quiet appt.
I wish all my friends here a good day.

[xn728]

your not over reacting (((((mich )))))),,we can all feel like that if we dont get a response from someone ,,ive been on there many times ,,said hi and got no answer ,,i just log out and go ,,,,,dont worry about it ,,im sorry your really struggling just now ,,looks like were both in the dark ,,differant times differant places same dark though mich so dont feel alone im in here somewere ,,,treat again tonight three candles ,,hang in there mich ,,were all with you hugs (((((mich)))))),,lots of love ken

[shatteredhopes]

(((((((((((Mich)))))))))) I am not a doctor, but I feel confident you will never reach your goal weight of 79 pounds, because at 5'10", you would be dead from a heart attack or something long before then if you keep this up. I don't mean to sound harsh, but you are committing slow suicide before my eyes and I care too much about you to be silent. Your kids love and need you, please go to the hospital and seek treatment. It doesn't matter that you have tried treatment 2 times before, this time may do the trick...this is very risky friend, you are risking vital organs by starving yourself and you could end up alive but severely maimed, and there are fates far worse than death. Don't most anorexics end up dying from something other than the actual starvation or dehydration itself, but something like heart failure? Maybe you could back off the therapy on the abuse and deal with the symptoms of your pain like the anorexia, the cutting, overdosing, and any other self-abuse? I think it has become urgent!

I know for me too depression makes me see things through a magnifying glass, where the slightest upset feels like the end of the world...but so too sometimes the littlest things can make me feel comforted, content, or nurtured...can you do some positive things for yourself?

I know sometimes things seem to get worse before they get better, like cleaning out a wound, but the self-abuse you are engaged in has become so risky...please, please, please seek help and maybe switch doctors or change the course of your therapy if you have to, but I think its time you take action to save your life. I don't think your doctor is doing right by you if he/she isn't hospitalizing you at this point, because this far too dangerous and your doctor needs to help you cope with this gruelling therapy if you are to survive it.

I want you to feel free to share, but you are committing slow suicide on line before my eyes, and I care a lot about you and want you to seek HELP.

[Mich]

(((((shatteredhopes, ken)))))))) I truly have never had so much caring in my life. Thank you for sticking by me.
Please don't worry though. I am nowhere near a dangerous weight and I have been sure to hydrate today. It is sort of a slow suicide and it's not fair for me to take you through the day to day of that. I'm sorry for that. Sometimes I just spew whatever is in my head without any regard for the people reading it. I will likely save myself before things get too far so please don't worry.
I don't think I should go for therapy on Tuesdays any more. My doctor deals with children in the morning and I think he is too distracted to deal with me properly after that. Also he is always harsh on Tuesdays. I might reduce my time down to just Fridays when he is much more empathetic.

[xn728]

im glad you know what your doing mich ,,it always sounds bad when you read a post and your freinds are undergoing a lot of pain ,,,we cant help but worry ,,but somewere in my heart ,,i know you suffer ,,but you will keep yourself safe ,,do what you think is best with the ,,therapy but just keep going to at least one,,talk to you again soon mich and thanks for your kind words ,,,nice to see you post ,,take very good care ,hugs ((((mich)))) lots of love ,,kenxxx

[Mich]

No sunshine today. My psychiatrist told me yesterday that my presence puts a lot of pressure on my husband. I do my utmost best to keep pressure off of my husband. I make the dinner, do laundry, some cleaning, take the kids places and help them with their homework. My husband enjoys all the time he needs to de-stress from his job by working out or swimming at the gym. I never talk to him about how I feel fearing that I will bring him down or stress him out. I do not WANT to do any of these things that I do....but I force myself for his sake. What I really want to do is lie in bed with my iPOD and never get up. If my presence stresses him out so much then perhaps this anorexia will be the answer to his prayers. At least my doctor won't have to listen to me any more.

[xn728]

dont let the phcy doc tell you your putting pressure on your husband ,,marriage is a parter ship ,,a bond for life ,,and your husbands duty is to show you support ,,but as you say you do your best not to pressure him,,,you sound a little like me ,mich ,,hiding your pain so it touches no one else ,,i cant tell you off for that one ,,,so dont feel upset at what the doc says ,,i think they have no idea ,,what this illness is all about ,,,please dont punish your body and make your self ill YOUR DOING A FANTASTIC JOB UNDER ALL THIS STRAIN ,,,,,take care mich hugs (((((mich))))),,,lots of love ken xxx

[shatteredhopes]

What did he mean by putting a lot of pressure on your husband? By starving yourself? Did your husband contact him? I would get to the bottom of what he meant by that, but the bottom line is, if you could control your illness you would! I completely understand the "addiction" aspect of what you are doing. Maybe he is trying to make you feel "guilty" as a way of getting you to eat? I dunno...whole thing just sounds so strange for a shrink to say...are you sure this doc is doing right by you? Some doctors not so good, and you seem to be doing so much self-harm in conjunction with this gruelling therapy...I just worry you aren't getting the right, or enough, help. For example, it seems to me the number one thing right now is to help you not self-harm and strengthen you to find more positive ways to cope, rather than spending so much time on the extremely painful past, there is an urgent issue at hand...because its not just the weight, its the act of starvation and dehydration in and of itself that places great strain on your organs and worsens depression...I think of it like when I used to drink, it felt good when I was drinking and I got perked up, but overall it was making me more and more depressed, and the more depressed I got the more I would drink to find that temporary boost...like each time you lose a pound you feel good or the hunger makes you feel good to an extent but overall the absence of proper nutrition has a dramatic effect on your brain and chemistry that makes things far worse.

If you won't go in the hospital, would you at least search the net to see if there's help out there, like a 12 step program, to give you specific support to fight the anorexia? We are here for you ((((((((((Mich)))))))))) and as I said I want you to feel free to post but I also care too much about you not to say something and stand idly by as you hurt yourself. We value you, your family values you, and you can do much with your life when you can stop hurting yourself and begin applying yourself to something you might like to do. I think when you are feeling better if you could volunteer for instance, that would help a lot. Could you do some difficult exercises that strain the muscles a bit instead of starving yourself? It would also help lose weight but in more healthy way and give you a sense of hurting yourself but in more productive way...maybe?

Anyway, big HUGS and warm thoughts and sisterly love and friendship being sent to you!

[xn728]

Just wishing you well for today (((((mich))))),,i hope i can send you a little strentgh to help you carry on this battle your fighting just now ,,lisa has posted mich ,,that will lift you i know ,,hope you see her post soon ,,dont worry about me ,,ill be ok ,,i have fought many battles mich ,,,i will hurt but i wont allow myself to fall,,,were all concerned about you at the moment mich so just keep posting ,,,,listen to your ipod ,,,oh i love my music mich it can help me so much in the darkest of times ,,,ok mich you be really strong ,,,and look for the candles ,,,always with you good or bad times ,,,hugs ((((mich))))),,,,lots of love ken

[xn728]

Just saying hi mich ,,have you been eating a little today ,,i hope so ,,it would be nice if you could feel better in general ,,you suffer so much ,,i can only wish for you better times soon mich ,,,hugs (((((mich))))),,see you soon lots of love ken xxx

[xn728]

hello mich ,,hope your ok ,,you are quiet again so i know you will be in pain ,,all i can do is let you know im thinking of you at all times ,,stay safe ((((((((mich)))))))),,,and dont feel alone ,,,lots of love ken xxx